30-06 vs 7mm

Welcome to THE GUNMEISTER channel. In this video I test some very popular hunting rifle ammunition. The rounds tested are .223, 30-30, .308, 30-06, 7MM. Then...

The 7mm rem mag is #1 and the 30-06 is a close second. Very few of the deer I've killed with these three were over 300 yards. From my experience, big bucks run most of the time when shot behind the shoulder no matter what caliber you use. The tracking jobs were a little longer with a 308.A huge success since its 1962 debut, the 7mm Rem. Mag. turns up in elk camps as often as the .30-06. A better choice for elk hunting than Remington’s big 7mm is tough to find. Introduced in 1962 with the Model 700 rifle, it featured 150- and 175-grain factory loads.Let’s discover how the 7mm Rem Mag stacks up to other big game hunting cartridges like the 300 Winchester Magnum, 30-06 Springfield, 300 Precision Rifle Cartridge and 6.5 Precision Rifle Cartridge. 300 Win Mag Vs. 7mm Rem Mag Ballistics Chart. 7mm Rem Mag Vs. 30-06 Ballistics Chart. 7mm Rem Mag Vs. 300 PRC Ballistics ChartDec 2, 2012 ... Best of both worlds go .280. Actually the 30-06 will kill anything on this continent and do it 50% cheaper than 7 mag.Feb 26, 2024 · The 7mm Rem Mag vs 300 Win Mag debate has been raging for more than 60 years. ... allows it to work in the same size action as a 30-06 Springfield. I’ve used the 300 Winchester Magnum in North ...

This is not enough to argue about, so I’m not convinced that the 7mm is better than the .270, but you can stoke it with a heavier bullet. Recommended. Advertisement. Then come the .30s, and now we’re talking business. The .308 Winchester is a fine elk cartridge, and the grand old .30-06, with a bit more velocity and energy, is better. The ...Let’s first look at the cartridge specs to see the general key differences between the behavior of these two big game cartridges. The .30-06 has, as implied by the name, a .308 diameter bullet. The 7 mm Rem mag, on the other hand, is slightly smaller at .284.Hunting. Self-defense. .30-06 is commonly used for: Hunting. Target practice. Military applications requiring precise performance. 7mm Rem Mag vs. .30-06: Cartridge Specifications. The …Below are examples of the ballistic performance of .30-30 ammo vs. 30-06 ammo. At 100 yards: A125 grain .30-30 bullet reaches a muzzle energy of 1,210 ft. lbs with a velocity of 2,090 fps. A 125 grain .30-06 bullet reaches a muzzle energy of 1,513 ft. lbs with a velocity of 2,335 fps. At 200 yards:7mm or .30-06 As most have noted, the .30-06 is the hands down choice for the largest North American game, due to heavier available bullets and larger wound channel. It would certainly be my choice, as I own four .30-06s and have owned several different 7mm varieties. ... 175s in a Rem Mag vs 180s in an .30-06 may indeed be real …7mm or .30-06 As most have noted, the .30-06 is the hands down choice for the largest North American game, due to heavier available bullets and larger wound channel. It would certainly be my choice, as I own four .30-06s and have owned several different 7mm varieties. ... 175s in a Rem Mag vs 180s in an .30-06 may indeed be real …The “best” caliber between 30-06 vs 7mm depends on your specific needs and preferences. For long-range shooting and larger game, the 7mm Rem Mag stands out. However, for versatile hunting applications and lower recoil, the 30-06 Springfield is an excellent option. By understanding the characteristics of these two renowned calibers, you can ...Hunting Considerations: 308 Vs 7Mm Rem Mag. The 308 and 7mm rem mag are both popular choices for hunting big game. The 308 is effective for deer, elk, and black bear hunting due to its stopping power. On the other hand, the 7mm rem mag holds an advantage for larger game like moose and grizzly bears. When it comes to long-range shooting, the 308 ...

But at 600 yards, the .30-06 has reached a velocity too slow for reliable expansion (1,800 fps) and has dropped about 86 inches. The 7mm, on the other hand, only drops 72 inches at 600 yards and is still …Medicine Matters Sharing successes, challenges and daily happenings in the Department of Medicine Nadia Hansel, MD, MPH, is the interim director of the Department of Medicine in th...May 18, 2020 · Looking at bullet weight, the 7mm offers bullets ranging between 100 grains and 195 grains (though a fast twist rate is required for the latter). Most conventional ammunition will top out at 175 grains, though, unless you’re looking at a serious long-range setup. The .30-calibers use bullets weighing between 100 or 110 grains (usually ... A huge success since its 1962 debut, the 7mm Rem. Mag. turns up in elk camps as often as the .30-06. A better choice for elk hunting than Remington’s big 7mm is tough to find. Introduced in 1962 with the Model 700 rifle, it featured 150- and 175-grain factory loads.We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us.Sep 8, 2022 ... In today's video, we will see if a 30-06 can penetrate more steel than a 308 Winchester. All of the testing was done at 50 yards using a529 ...

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But I just dont know if I am that hip on the .30 cal bullet for antelope and the 7mm rem Mag would pack a good punch for both distance and energy especially at the 500 yard mark if need be. So fellas whats your advice. #1. Encore barrel or seperate gun? Would the encore barrel be good enough for 500 yard and in shooting? #2. 30-06 or 7mm Rem …Lastly, the base diameter for 30-30 is considerably smaller than 30-06 (0.422” vs 0.471”, respectively). This relates to both case capacity and the SAAMI spec maximum pressure. The 30-30 can withstand about 33% less pressure at 42,000 PSI as compared to the 30-06 at 60,200 PSI.The 7mm Remington Magnum and 30-06 Springfield are two similarly sized cartridges, largely used by hunters. We designate one as a magnum while the other is …Best For. .30-06. The .30-06 is a predecessor of the 7.62 NATO and is great for hunting, competition, and range practice. 7mm. The 7mm is exclusively a long range round good for big game hunting and F-class …Overview And Size Of 7mm Rem Mag vs 30-06. When putting them side by side, I noticed that the 30-06 cartridge is a little bit smaller than the 7mm Rem Mag. It is foreseeable since the 7mm Rem Mag comes with a higher diameter of 0,284 inches compared to the 0,277 inches of its counterpart. However, the 30-06 features an overall length of 3,34 ...In today's video, we will be comparing the performance of the 7mm-08 Remington to the 308 Winchester on mild steel. Testing was setup at 50 yards using A529 ...

Feb 1, 2024 ... Now, about 50 years later I've discovered the 7mm-08 and feel like this is my new love. When I think of the 30-06 I immediately recall the ...The .30-06 Springfield cartridge has a larger diameter than the 7mm Remington Ultra Magnum cartridge by 0.024 inches. The overall length of a cartridge determines how deep a bullet will sit in a case. The length of a .30-06 Springfield cartridge is 63mm millimeters. The length of a 7mm Remington Ultra Magnum cartridge is 72.39mm …It takes more than 26 inches of barrel to equal 30-06 powder burn-off efficiency with a 7mm Remington Magnum. Take a 24-inch barrel on a 30-06 and compare it to the frequently used 24-inch barrel on a 7mm Remington Magnum, and from a technical viewpoint you'll find the 30-06 has a huge efficiency advantage. So there you have it.Nov 2, 2012 · 5956 posts · Joined 2009. #13 · Nov 12, 2012. As far as Bolt Rifles, I have both, the .30-06 and the 7mm MAG and shoot in both the 150 grain lead. Both rifles are about the same weight and the 7mm Mag has the most "felt" recoil. Two Words; "Simple Man", song by Charlie Daniels sums up my thoughts on a "few things"! Like. Now let’s compare that to the 7mm-08 Hornady Superformance SST 139gr bullet which has a higher BC of 0.486. In general, 308 bullets will have a slightly higher BC than their 7mm-08 counterparts, but again we are splitting hairs here. There are several 7mm-08 bullets that outperform the 308 and vice versa.The cartridge uses the same case as the venerable old .308 Win., but necks it up to accept a .338-caliber projectile. Its muzzle energy exceeds the .30-06, equals that of the 7mm Rem. Mag., and cooks along about 200 fps faster than the .308 Win. with a similarly-weighted bullet.Initial 7 PRC Factory Ammunition Offerings. Hornady is loading the 7 PRC with three different bullets to start. From heaviest to lightest they are the 180-grain ELD-M, 175-grain ELD-X, and 160-grain CX copper alloy bullet. The 180-grain ELD-M is in Hornady’s Match line and has an MSRP of $69.15 per box of 20.As far as recoil is concerned, I cannot tell any difference whatsoever between the two. The 7-Mag tends to be slightly louder (sharper bark).Dec 2, 2012 ... Best of both worlds go .280. Actually the 30-06 will kill anything on this continent and do it 50% cheaper than 7 mag.

The 7mm Remington Magnum drives the wide variety of 7mm bullets, from 120 to 175 grains, at respectable velocities. With comparable bullet weights, the 7mm Mag. will supersede the velocities of the .30-06 Springfield; though the ’06 can use heavier bullets, the 7mm of equal weight will offer a better Sectional Density.

7mm vs 30-06 Specs. 7mm is a 7.2mm (about 0.284) diameter cartridge with a case length of 2.5 inches. Compared to the 30-06, the 30 caliber round is 7.62mm (roughly 0.308) in …Check out skull bliss at https://shop.skullbliss.com/VVRvHvgDK and use coupon code BACKFIRE50 to get $50 off on top of the discounted prices they have on the...1) History of the .30-06 Springfield and the .270 Winchester cartridges. 2) How the cartridges compare to each other in terms of external dimensions, trajectory, recoil, and accuracy. 3) Compare ammo and rifle choices in each cartridge. 4) Detailed recommendations on which cartridge is best for hunting various big game species under …This is why I like the 6.5 PRC cartridge, good energy & velocity, accuracy and low recoil (it kicks less than my 308). I know it's a small diameter bullet bu...30-06: Generally has a 1:10 inch twist similar to the 270; Action Types. Action type significantly affects a rifle’s design and use. Bolt action, semi-automatic, and lever action are among the primary mechanisms. The 270, 308, and 30-06 can be found in various actions. Bolt actions are renowned for accuracy and reliability.Six percent is written as “0.06” in decimal format. Percent is derived from the Latin term “per centum” that means “by the hundred.” It means “one-hundredth part,” or 1/100. Six pe...Overview And Size Of 7mm Rem Mag vs 30-06. When putting them side by side, I noticed that the 30-06 cartridge is a little bit smaller than the 7mm Rem Mag. It is foreseeable since the 7mm Rem Mag comes with a higher diameter of 0,284 inches compared to the 0,277 inches of its counterpart. However, the 30-06 features an overall length of 3,34 ...Let’s review how 7mm and .30-06 stack up on a few different factors. Recoil. Recoil is one of the more noticeable differences between 7m and .30-06. 7mm Rem Mag, on average, has between 15 …Rifles can be more convenient in 30-06 Springfield because performance can be maximized in 22- to 24-inch barrels while the bigger magnums require longer, heavier barrels of 26- to 28-inches. The lighter recoil level of the -06 also means lighter weight rifles can be carried on tough hunts involving considerable hiking and climbing.Initial 7 PRC Factory Ammunition Offerings. Hornady is loading the 7 PRC with three different bullets to start. From heaviest to lightest they are the 180-grain ELD-M, 175-grain ELD-X, and 160-grain CX copper alloy bullet. The 180-grain ELD-M is in Hornady’s Match line and has an MSRP of $69.15 per box of 20.

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What about 7mm Rem Mag vs .30-06 Springfield accuracy? Gun writers have spilled a lot of ink comparing the accuracy of the 7mm Rem Mag vs 30-06 over the years. While picking the most accurate cartridge of the two is a relatively contentious subject, most people agree that both the 7mm Mag and .30-06 are capable of excellent accuracy.While both the 7mm-08 and .30-06 possess the velocity and range for long range competitions, they are lower on the totem pole for competitive shooting cartridges. …Hunting Considerations: 308 Vs 7Mm Rem Mag. The 308 and 7mm rem mag are both popular choices for hunting big game. The 308 is effective for deer, elk, and black bear hunting due to its stopping power. On the other hand, the 7mm rem mag holds an advantage for larger game like moose and grizzly bears. When it comes to long-range shooting, the 308 ...30-06 vs 7mm Rem Mag. Long Range King: 7mm Rem Mag has the best velocity (past 220 yards), trajectory, energy (past 220 yards), and wind drift values of any cartridge in this comparison. Using the same-sized bullet the 7mm Rem Mag is far and away better than the 30-06 Springfield, even within 220 yards. The 7mm Rem Mags only close …Javascript is required. Please enable javascript before you are allowed to see this page.7mm Rem Mag and .30-06 Springfield are ultimately very similar, with comparable ballistic performance in many ways. However, they’re not identical. The amount of felt recoil and the bullet’s trajectory is perhaps the most noticeable differences between these two rounds.The majority of the rounds, both 7mm-08 and .30-06, cluster up tightly out of the muzzle between 2,600 and 2,800fps. Granted, the .30-06 bullet weights for these rounds are slightly heavier than the 7mm-08 rounds which is one of the reasons why the recoil was a few ft.lbs higher than the 7mm-08.Medicine Matters Sharing successes, challenges and daily happenings in the Department of Medicine Nadia Hansel, MD, MPH, is the interim director of the Department of Medicine in th...7mm Mauser vs 7mm-08 vs 7mm Magnum. ... It would match my friend’s 30-06 for the deer we hunted. It’s a beautiful little seven pound carbine that I still cherish today for the workmanship of the rifle and the memories I …The 30-06 will work just fine with a lot less recoil than the 7mm RM. You could also go with a few other calibers as well. The 6.5 creedmor and the 7mm08 are very similar rounds trajectory and recoil wise. The smaller and larger variants of the 08 family would work as well. They are the .243 and 308 rounds.The cartridge uses the same case as the venerable old .308 Win., but necks it up to accept a .338-caliber projectile. Its muzzle energy exceeds the .30-06, equals that of the 7mm Rem. Mag., and cooks along about 200 fps faster than the .308 Win. with a similarly-weighted bullet.By Gary Zinn. It is no secret that the 7mm-08 Remington and .280 Remington cartridges are descendants of the .308 Winchester and .30-06, respectively.The 7mm Remington Magnum and .300 Winchester Magnum are based on necked-down .458 Win. Mag. cases with a 25 degree shoulder. These 7mm (.284" diameter) and .308 caliber pairs have performance … ….

A huge success since its 1962 debut, the 7mm Rem. Mag. turns up in elk camps as often as the .30-06. A better choice for elk hunting than Remington’s big 7mm is tough to find. Introduced in 1962 with the Model 700 rifle, it featured 150- …In this Cartridge Clash, Brad Fitzpatrick weighs the pros and cons of the .308 Win. vs 7mm-08 Rem. ... The cartridge offered ballistics that nipped at the .30-06’s heels from a shorter action, and that made the .308 a popular chambering option for bolt-action, semiauto, lever-action and slide-action rifles. Hunters appreciated the cartridge ...Rifles can be more convenient in 30-06 Springfield because performance can be maximized in 22- to 24-inch barrels while the bigger magnums require longer, heavier barrels of 26- to 28-inches. The lighter recoil level of the -06 also means lighter weight rifles can be carried on tough hunts involving considerable hiking and climbing.We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us.Nov 2, 2012 ... As far as Bolt Rifles, I have both, the .30-06 and the 7mm MAG and shoot in both the 150 grain lead. Both rifles are about the same weight and ...The 30-06 while a great cartridge in my opinion was designed like all hand held military cartridges to kill or even better wound a 150 pound man. While many an elephant has probably been taken with a 30-06, it is not in my opinion a prudent practice for the guy who expects to die in bed. ... (30-06 or 7mm Mag), but then, I don't take shots …The 7mm 08 vs 308 Winchester debate has gone on for decades. ... Though it’s slightly inferior to the grand old 30-06 Springfield ballistically speaking, it has eclipsed the ’06 in popularity ...Oct 18, 2023 ... As for drift, 30-06 Springfield definitely drifts quicker than 7mm-08 despite having a slightly heavier bullet. This suggests that, as mentioned ...There is cheaper ammo and better choices for factory ammunition. The 30 has more reloading data available for it. The 30 has more power that you can use on many more animals. If you do resell it will appeal to more people. Re: 30-06 vs. 7x57. DMAX2500HD # 6112780 01/30/12. 30-06 vs 7mm, Both were based on a necked-down .30-’06 Springfield, but to prevent the .280 from chambering in a .277-inch chamber, Remington increased the bullet diameter to .284-inch and made the case slightly longer by .050-inch. Though the .280 Rem. had potential — 154-grain soft-point with a muzzle velocity of 2,825 feet per second (fps) — it …, The 7mm Magnum was touted as being a superior option to the 30-06 Springfield in every ballistic category for all bullet weights. In contrast, the 300 Win Mag was released one year later in 1963 and was a late addition to Winchester’s belted magnum cartridge line that included the 264 Winchester Magnum, 338 Win Mag, and 458 Win Mag., Feb 28, 2023 ... In today's video, we will see how deep multiple different "sniper rifle" calibers will go into mild steel plates., The .243 has a tiny bit longer case than the 7mm-08, which has a slightly longer case than the .308 (2.045″ vs 2.035″ vs 2.015″), but the .308 has the greatest overall length by a very small margin. All three cartridge are used in short-action rifles. Indeed, the .308 Winchester is the poster child for the short-action rifle., You'd be fine with hotter/heavier loads of .30-06, but if you can handle 7mm Rem Mag, .300 Win Mag has more ammo variety in factory rounds. yup the 300 Win Mag is the best choice. there is a lot out there in terms of rifle design and ammo for specific uses. and if you get into hand loading, you can get really into it., Pros and Cons of 30-06 Springfield vs 7mm-08 Remington Bullet Size – 30-06 Springfield creates larger, more effective wound cavities on game animals at closer distances than 7mm-08. Versatility – 30-06 Springfield really is a great cartridge for use on any and all game animals in North America., In this 7mm Rem Mag vs 30-06 comparison, I’ll explore their strengths and weaknesses to see which is the best option for your requirements., 30-06 achieves that right velocity easily at normal stalking ranges. And if you are going to shoot across canyons then 7mm Remington Magnum is a ..., The creed could take you to 600 yards for game and the 7mm Mag would take you to 900 or so with more authority. Maybe a little further with the 180 Bergers. The 7mm would burn more powder, have shorter case life, and burn the barrel out quicker than the 6.5 creed. Depends on whether target or hunting takes priority too., Aug 26, 2004 ... The dead elk and deer will never know the difference. The 7mm will give you flatter trajectory than the 30-06 will but the 30-06 is available ..., The .300 and the .338 are practically identical in penetration, but the .300 is more accurate at long range and is a bolt action rather than a single shot break action. The only way I find the 7mm to be superior to the .30-06 is that it is rated for classes 4-9, rather than just 4-8. Originally posted by Striker:, Oct 21, 2019 ... Truly the only blemishes on the .30-06 are its age, efficiency, and hunters' bias. This upgrade of the 7mm Mauser (check the head and body ..., While the two calibers are very closely matched in speed, the 7mm Remington Magnum does maintain a consistent advantage over the .30-06 Springfield. Out of the muzzle, the 7mm Rem Mag is flying 90 ft/s faster than the .30-06. At 300 yards, that advantage has expanded to 186 ft/s. By 500 yards, the 7mm Rem Mag is flying 238 ft/s faster than the ... , 7mm Rem Mag vs. .30-06 Springfield. 50807 Views 48 Replies 31 Participants Last post by TMan, Apr 22, 2013. R ..., The 7mm-08 Remington’s recoil produces 14.88 ft-lbs of energy at a velocity of 10.68 fps. Because of its mild recoil, it is often recommended as a good hunting cartridge for youth and small-framed shooters. The 7mm Remington Mag generates significant recoil of 22.15 ft-lbs at 13.32 fps., Aug 28, 2020 ... Comments1.1K · 7 Mag vs 30-06: Let's solve this once and for all · 223 -vs- 5.56: FACTS and MYTHS · 5 Best Hunting Rifle Cartridges for Ne..., Then find out our views on .308 vs .30-06, 7mm Rem Mag vs 300 Win Mag, and .338 Lapua versus .30-06. And for quality firearm options, it’s worth taking a look at our comprehensive reviews of the Best .30-06 Rifes and the Best 300 Win Mag Scope on the market in 2024., There is cheaper ammo and better choices for factory ammunition. The 30 has more reloading data available for it. The 30 has more power that you can use on many more animals. If you do resell it will appeal to more people. Re: 30-06 vs. 7x57. DMAX2500HD # 6112780 01/30/12., Nov 2, 2012 · 5956 posts · Joined 2009. #13 · Nov 12, 2012. As far as Bolt Rifles, I have both, the .30-06 and the 7mm MAG and shoot in both the 150 grain lead. Both rifles are about the same weight and the 7mm Mag has the most "felt" recoil. Two Words; "Simple Man", song by Charlie Daniels sums up my thoughts on a "few things"! Like. , Feb 26, 2024 · The 7mm Rem Mag vs 300 Win Mag debate has been raging for more than 60 years. ... allows it to work in the same size action as a 30-06 Springfield. I’ve used the 300 Winchester Magnum in North ... , Let’s discover how the 7mm Rem Mag stacks up to other big game hunting cartridges like the 300 Winchester Magnum, 30-06 Springfield, 300 Precision Rifle Cartridge and 6.5 Precision Rifle Cartridge. 300 Win Mag Vs. 7mm Rem Mag Ballistics Chart. 7mm Rem Mag Vs. 30-06 Ballistics Chart. 7mm Rem Mag Vs. 300 PRC Ballistics Chart, 30-06 rounds carry more kinetic energy with them downrange than the 7mm-08 rounds and this is the case at each yard marker. We do still see the .30-06 rounds ..., Just wondering, for those of you that have hunted medium to big size game, how many of you prefer the 7mm mag over the 30-06. I have always used a 30-06 for deer but decided to use my 7mm mag. for a moose hunt last Fall. The Mag did a nice job (with some help from Nosler): 90 yards, 150 gr..., The 270 Winchester uses the 30-06 parent case. The 7mm-08 uses the 308 as a parent case, and the 308 succeeded the 30-06 as the United States military cartridge of choice. In a six degrees of Kevin Bacon-like fashion, the two rounds have long circled each other. ... It’s REM 7mm-08 vs 270 WIN: Cartridge vs. Cartridge. 7mm-08 …, The “best” caliber between 30-06 vs 7mm depends on your specific needs and preferences. For long-range shooting and larger game, the 7mm Rem Mag stands out. However, for versatile hunting applications and lower recoil, the 30-06 Springfield is an excellent option. By understanding the characteristics of these two renowned calibers, you can ..., The 30-06 while a great cartridge in my opinion was designed like all hand held military cartridges to kill or even better wound a 150 pound man. While many an elephant has probably been taken with a 30-06, it is not in my opinion a prudent practice for the guy who expects to die in bed. ... (30-06 or 7mm Mag), but then, I don't take shots …, The 7mm-08 Remington’s recoil produces 14.88 ft-lbs of energy at a velocity of 10.68 fps. Because of its mild recoil, it is often recommended as a good hunting cartridge for youth and small-framed shooters. The 7mm Remington Mag generates significant recoil of 22.15 ft-lbs at 13.32 fps., Recoil may be more with the 30/06 but for 600 yard capability I wouldn't even consider the 7/08. Plus you have the advantage of many choices in ..., RE: 7mm-08 vs. .270 vs. 30-06. For deer, there just isn't a better rifle than the 270. It shoots flat and fast and like you say the ammo is available everywhere. The selection of bullet is not a factor as the 270 will drop any animal in NA with a quality 130 grain bullet. All three are near perfect for deer hunting., Below are examples of the ballistic performance of .30-30 ammo vs. 30-06 ammo. At 100 yards: A125 grain .30-30 bullet reaches a muzzle energy of 1,210 ft. lbs with a velocity of 2,090 fps. A 125 grain .30-06 bullet reaches a muzzle energy of 1,513 ft. lbs with a velocity of 2,335 fps. At 200 yards:, The big advantage the 7mm-08 has over the 7mm Mauser is that it’s a slightly shorter cartridge (with an overall length of 71mm compared to 78mm for the 7mm Mauser) and therefore packs the performance of the 7mm Mauser into a smaller package. Since it’s so much shorter, the 7mm-08 fits in a short-action rifle while the 7mm Mauser requires a ..., The 7mm Mag has been around for over fifty years and is still very popular today as an all-purpose big game killer. It kicks out bullets of the same weight faster than popular non-magnum calibers like the .270 Winchester or .30-06, and the 7mm Mag is great choice for hunters who want a hard-hitting, flat-shooting rifle for long range shots., 7 Mag vs 30-06: Let's solve this once and for all - YouTube. Backfire. 869K subscribers. 230K views 1 year ago #skullbliss. ...more. Check out skull bliss at...