Ilvl for mythics

Ilvl for basic mythic was 820. +2 is an increase of 8% (I think). 840 is more than enough to get through a +2. 0. Reply. MrInYourFACE. • 7 yr. ago. If it is yoir key, open a group with your key and LF boost. If you want to do +2 you wont get invited u less you are at least 850+. 0.

The loot will also scale past +15 all the way to +20, which will give players mid-level Mythic gear in the Great Vault and slightly below mid-level Heroic in end-of-dungeon chests.Which for every raid in DF has been a difference of 13 ilvl. With that I believe minimum ilvl is going to be 441 for normal. 454 for heroic and then 467 for mythic. You can obviously get away with lower ilvl, but a good baseline so there are no excuses for under performance is to set a minimum ilvl. Keep in mind that once NOV 14 rolls around ...Reply. Share. Chibibowa. • 2 yr. ago. The absolute minimum is 200 if you want to farm mythic0 to +4 or 5. Especially as a tank. 225 if you want to tap into 7 or 8s. 240 if you …A guaranteed iLvL 483 weekly item from the weekly Great Vault, which is the easiest way to gear your character in Dragonflight. A 20% chance to get iLvL 470 item from the mythic chest, highest possible item level from mythic+ dungeon in DF. Note that you can add one, two or three traders, which exponentially increases the mythic plus 20 boost ...So you got waaay more chances for anything to TF and it would be just stupid to make m+ gear base ilvl higher. 930 from weekly chest is already high for doing just one +15. You can pug a +15 in 30 min, while mythic bosses drop same ilvl and you wipe on them for days or even weeks sometimes.Normal now drops 210 item level, Heroic drops 223 ilvl, and Mythic 236 ilvl instead of 210. With that, the item level from Mythic+ is also increased, with the end of dungeon item ceiling level going from 210 to 236, with Valor upgrades being able to reach 272 instead of 246, and Great Vault Mythic+ rewards able to go all the way to 285, …Where do i get +430 ilvl gear? When am i ready for a Mythic +0 and what ilvl do mythics give? Retail I'm at ilvl 428 if that matters. ... you should be good to do m0 and maybe even +2-3 at 420. Base mythics drop 430 gear I believe, and scale up from there. Reply reply Top 1% Rank by size . More posts you may like Top Posts ...They offer overwhelmingly difficult PvE challenges and, at the same time, are far less time-consuming than more traditional raids. Considering that a Mythic Dungeon gear ilvl in WoW Dragonflight is usually comparable to those from raids, M+ Dungeons is a perfect way to experience the most interesting part of the game for a great number of players.

Dragonflight M+ and iLvl. Highmountain Tauren Prot Warrior - 364 iLvl. I've been just fine in +2 and +3 Mythics. Last night I struggled with a +5 (Crawth, specifically), and was told this morning by one of the members of the group I ran with that I shouldn't be doing any M+ until I'm at 390 iLvl. That feels . . . off.Posted by u/Lylat97 - 3 votes and 11 commentsBy gibsy Last Updated: 2023/11/05 Changelog Patch: 10.2.6. The 8 new Dungeons for Dragonflight Season 3 includes the new Mega-Dungeon Dawn of the Infinite and …I’d suggest starting the first couple levels at ~430ish, and you can judge for yourself as you rank your keystone up. anon21459328 February 14, 2020, 2:45am 10. There is no ilvl requirement for M+ but how you play and how your party plays affects things greatly. I’d go with friends or people you know.Great Vault. The Great Vault reward track however has changed. Players will need to complete +18s to get Myth track rewards (up from +16s) and need to use more Aspect crests to hit max item level. Stay up to date with all the latest news with Wowhead News Notifications! Enjoy an ad-free experience, unlock premium features, & support the …

Yesterday, we found out that base Mythic dungeons have also been scaled by 30% in Season 3 which makes keys much more difficult this Season -- A +10 in Season 3 will have the difficulty of a +15 from Season 2. We also go over the upcoming rewards for next week's Season 3 Weekly Mythic+ chest and answer what keystone level players …Heroic. you can't use the automated Group Finder to join one. Find out what the current Mythics are. Dungeons the current Dragonflight season. Set your Dungeon Difficulty to Mythic. Find a group. Find the entrance: legacy portals to their respective zones can be found in Valdrakken. Step inside.How to Get into and Improve at Mythic+ Dungeons in Shadowlands - World of Warcraft - Icy Veins. Last updated on Apr 08, 2021 at 02:00 by Petko 1 comment. This guide will walk you through every step you need to take to get into M+ dungeons in Shadowlands.Earlier I had a pally tank with I think 280 ilvl or so and a mythic+ score of less than 400. 9) If you're tanking, it's going to be very important for you to create a route. TBH Tanks drive the bus mythic+ and if you don't have a route it'll be very difficult to properly complete a dungeon properly, especially at higher keys.

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If you have geared guildmates you can get into mythics at any iLvl. I let our 850+ DK tank carry my 780 ilvl hPally in mythics and it was just fine. Mythics aren't too hard, they just require you to pay attention more than normals/heroics. If you can get into them it's a way faster way to gear (especially through loot sharing with ...iLvl for Reg Mythics and eventually Mythic+ . I'm currently a 846 ilvl resto shaman that has mainly geared up via world quests, heroics, and some raid finder. At this ilvl, should I be able to comfortably heal a regular mythic dungeon? Locked post. New comments cannot be posted.Shadowlands Keystone Master: Season Four requires a Mythic+ Rating of at least 2,000 (was 2,500). A new variant of the Deathwalker mount is available ( Restoration Deathwalker ) to be …That is not the problem, you just need to be a great player in a great team (considering what people pushed in season 1 with mythic uldir ilevel). 390 should be alright for +10. The thing is without experience on the dungeons and proper gear no one will take you for the keys since it is too late into the xpac already.With the increase of 39ilvls this season compared to 26 from previous seasons, I would look to be around 430+ to start pushing M+/raid on release week. The new raid on LFR will drop 441 gear for some catchup and I imagine the new event will get some gear close to that ilvl too. In terms of what M+ drops, a +2 will drop 441 loot and most people ...

Mythics are not like any other dungeon, in that they are not part of the automatic dungeon finder. You have to go to Premade Groups > Dungeons and either start your own group (and pick where you want to go) or apply to fill a role in a different person's group. If you're a DPS, this may take some time. When searching, search for "M0" or ...iLvl for Reg Mythics and eventually Mythic+ . I'm currently a 846 ilvl resto shaman that has mainly geared up via world quests, heroics, and some raid finder. At this ilvl, should I be able to comfortably heal a regular mythic dungeon? Locked post. New comments cannot be posted.You’re good to start buddy. 372 is M0 iLvl so it should be perfectly fine to go into M+ and heroic raid. Especially as a tank. Tanking is more about skill than iLvl. ILvl just covers for lack of skill, outside of high end Mythic+ or Mythic raid. You should be good to start doing M+ and normal/heroic raiding!Find out the recommended iLvl for different levels of M+ dungeons in WoW. Join the discussion and share your experience with other players on Blizzard Forums.Mythic+ dungeons in WoW offer challenging endgame content with scaling difficulty and rewards. To enter M+ dungeons, you must be at the max level (70 in Dragonflight Season 3), possess a Keystone, and meet specific item level requirements (420-425). Obtain your Keystone by completing Mythic dungeons.The issue here is that the difference in power between high and low gear is so high right now that it is completely intefereing with the experience of the game. High ilvl isn't the problem, the problem is that you can't get a high ilvl through pvp. Also lack of pvp vendors, because "people can't find them" lol.Great Vault. The Great Vault reward track however has changed. Players will need to complete +18s to get Myth track rewards (up from +16s) and need to use more Aspect crests to hit max item level. Stay up to date with all the latest news with Wowhead News Notifications! Enjoy an ad-free experience, unlock premium features, & support the site!Dragonflight Season 2 Affix System Changes. Dragonflight Season 2 brings a minor rework to the affix system. Affixes are now applied at keystone levels 7 and 14. Explosive, Quaking, and Grievous have been retired. Periodic affixes are now active at keystone level 7: Afflicted, Incorporeal, Volcanic, Entangling, Storming.WoW mythic plus services are available to all World of Warcraft gamers on both EU and US realms, regardless of their server, class, ilvl or skill, 24/7. Our boosting team completes the mythics on different keystone ranks, starting from 10 and completing 27 levels.

Normal now drops 210 item level, Heroic drops 223 ilvl, and Mythic 236 ilvl instead of 210. With that, the item level from Mythic+ is also increased, with the end of dungeon item ceiling level going from 210 to 236, with Valor upgrades being able to reach 272 instead of 246, and Great Vault Mythic+ rewards able to go all the way to 285, instead ...

Any recommendations to get ilvl for mythics? Reply ... Ilvl 156 Blood dk, dont have friends ready for mythic yet and afraid someone will drop or yell if I go mythic with randoms. Reply More posts you may like.Depending on skill level, 340+. Realistically 350-360 for the average player. At launch most people that I play with were doing regular mythics as soon as we hit 70 (but there was no M+ released just yet). On my second character that hit 70 after M+ was available I was doing +2s at 345 ilvl. I hit 70, bought some crafted gear, and jumped right in.Explore the Enhancements to Mythic+ in Dragonflight's Season 3: Unveiling Eight Dungeons, Seasonal Rewards, and Item Level Progression. For comprehensive insights into Mythic+ during Dragonflight Season 3, delve into our Season 3 Mythic+ Loot Guide. This guide offers an extensive breakdown of Mythic+ loot, encompassing its origins, distinctive items, and additional details. Discover the ...Profession Crafting (111 - 262 ilvl) In patch 9.2 you will be able to add several new optional reagents when crafting gear, There are new slots added on the ui when crafting a piece of gear. In 9.1.5 the UI had 3 slots. Specify a Secondary Stat. Specify a Secondary Stat. Set Item Level. In patch 9.2, the UI will have.If you are somewhat confident in your healing abilities (and obviously in your groups performance) you can go in there with 840-ish ilvl, if you really feel rusty and that anxious I would recommend to farm the Sentinax on the Broken Shore, buy the 850 ilvl gear (and eventually 880 if you have the time) and then just do the mythics and low mythic+ keys …Comment by Wexen 400 ilvl Azerite Armor gives 200 Titan Residuum when scrapped, not only 115. This is very important because if you are farming Titan Residuum out of Prismatic Manapearls it becomes more convenient to upgrade Benthic Azerite Armor at ilvl 400 spending 25 pearls for 200 TR, instead of scrapping ilvl 385 spending 5 pearls for 35 TR.Gladius. Download link. Already mentioned earlier, it is by far one of the most important addons for PvP arena players - enemy team unit frames with many customizable features and important information, such as PvP trinket status, Target of Target, cooldown tracker and announcer.OP asked what ilvl they should aim for in order to start doing mythics, not community perception of meta, etc. Either way my point is that saying “240 until 9, 250 until 12, 260 13/14, and 265+ for 15” is a strangely specific and very arbitrary scale.

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Like most WoW raids, the loot in Aberrus gets progressively better the deeper you go into the raid.The item level of gear that drops in the back-end of the raid will outscale gear that you earn ...With a higher max ilvl, it makes everyone closer to a level playing field and makes things feel fresh while extending the gearing process. Just a reminder that this season, it was only 17s and higher granted updates over 426 or whatever it was, now even 10s are worth doing sort of for an ilvl upgrade, even if you got to farm it later from 17s ...As others have said, 10-15 levels below the drop level (not the weekly chest) is considered the standard range to be successful. It really depends on the group comp though. A 430 or less geared tank with a 475 healer will be able to push into +10s as long as they don't get one-shot. Reply.For items higher than that, however, you are going to be looking at running Mythic+ and higher difficulty raid content. You will get opportunities as higher-level raid drops from Timewalking and Mythic weekly quests, but that's one random item per week per character, so much slower than running the dungeons or raids. The season is long, though.Blizzard has updated their Mythic+ and PvP Loot tables on the Support site for Season 4 and there have been some new changes to Item Levels in Season 4. Most notably, Mythic 14s will drop the same Item Level as 15s from end-of-dungeon boxes and achieving Rival status in Arena has a chance to award 475 Azerite from the PvP Weekly Chest.Apr 16, 2023 · Mount reward: Hailstorm Armoredon. Dragonflight Keystone Hero: Season One: Attain a Mythic+ Rating of at least 2500 during Dragonflight Season One. Item reward: Gleaming Incarnate Thunderstone. Keystone Hero: The Azure Vault: Complete The Azure Vault at Mythic Level 20 or higher, within the time limit. Portal reward: Teleport: The Azure Vault. Aberrus, the Shadowed Crucible, the second raid in World of Warcraft: Dragonflight, is an nine boss raid instance. In this guide, we will detail all gear loot that drops in Aberrus, the Shadowed Crucible, organized by type, including armor, weapons, tier sets, BoEs, and more.Shadowlands Season 2 comes along with an increase in item level rewards from Mythic+ dungeons as well as their Great Vault counterpart. Here are the updated item level values for Shadowlands Season 2. Note: For the first week of Season 2 (July 6th), item levels from end-of-dungeon rewards will be capped at 229. Keystone Level.Or run with a guild. I think 350 is a very safe ilvl to start mythics but you might be able to do it lower if you’re good and/or have a good group. 343 is just above the queue requirements for heroic, so I would say to run a few heroics for gear and you should be able to get to 350 ish easily.You're good to start buddy. 372 is M0 iLvl so it should be perfectly fine to go into M+ and heroic raid. Especially as a tank. Tanking is more about skill than iLvl. ILvl just covers for lack of skill, outside of high end Mythic+ or Mythic raid. You should be good to start doing M+ and normal/heroic raiding!Garuda, a mythical creature from ancient legends, has captivated the imaginations of people for centuries. Known as the king of birds in Hindu and Buddhist mythology, Garuda is a s... ….

Since affixes are only added at certain key levels, you can always run keys with one or two affixes applied until you become more comfortable! Tip 5. Don’t be afraid of making mistakes on mechanics…. While messing up mechanics isn’t great, lower-level keys punish you far less for each mistake.Raider.io Score or IO as it is commonly known is a cumulative scoring metric for dungeons, like a pseudo MMR of sorts. IO is calculated by taking the highest completed dungeon that you do in time (or if you do a high enough one out of time that will count as well) and attributing points to it. The cumulative total of all 12 dungeons is your ...Nkzar. •. Make a group and watch how many DPS sign up. The vast majority of them will probably be higher than 180 item level. So you can see why you have trouble getting invited when you're comparing against 15 other DPS who are all 10-15 item levels higher than you. I would make your own groups until you have better gear.Which for every raid in DF has been a difference of 13 ilvl. With that I believe minimum ilvl is going to be 441 for normal. 454 for heroic and then 467 for mythic. You can obviously get away with lower ilvl, but a good baseline so there are no excuses for under performance is to set a minimum ilvl. Keep in mind that once NOV 14 rolls around ...Tbh ilvl doesnt really mean anything either… But if youre looking for min ilvl to meet damage/healing/survival requirements id say +2-9 you just need a pulse +10 385-390 +15 405 Honestly Id agree raider io isnt perfect. Still 100x better than ilvl. Yeah you csn buy score but you can also buy gear. Thank you.Mythic+ is a special type of dungeon mode in Dragonflight, offering players an endlessly-scaling challenge. High-end PvE players will want to clear a Mythic +10 dungeon weekly to receive the best possible loot from the Great Vault, awarding ilvl 522 gear. Individual runs reward the group with loot, based on the difficulty ran, up to item level 509.See title. I'm just wondering because on my server, i see a lot of groups asking for 330, which seemed a bit high unless you're extremely lucky with titanforges or hand over a lot of gold for a boe. I personally don't like to tie the ilvl i'm asking for to rng luck, so i usually just expect people to have the average ilvl of the content directly before what they want to do. In the case of ...Mar 24, 2023 · That is not true, max upgrade will be 441, the same ilvl as mythic first boss, the same as now. Higher M+ gear will be only from vault. Comment by Benadar on 2023-03-24T09:37:48-05:00. Very nice change. The first few weeks were brutal in season 1 because the end of dungeon rewards were so weak. Comment by Jako on 2023-03-24T09:45:56-05:00 Ilvl for mythics, You also get a mix of raid achievements for beating VotI bosses, also you can grab ilvl 519 to 528 gear. Service Includes. Up to 8 bosses kills in Awakened VotI Mythic raid; Chance for of 519-528 ilvl gear; Chance for Incarnates raid Class Tier Set pieces; Progress in Vault of the Incarnates;, keakealani. • • Edited. I think 350 is a very safe ilvl to start mythics but you might be able to do it lower if you’re good and/or have a good group. 343 is just above the queue requirements for heroic, so I would say to run a few heroics for gear and you should be able to get to 350 ish easily. Reply., And yeah the highest ilvl item that exists right now is the legendary piece that you can only have one of that can be upgraded with the highest ilvl being 262. I swear the way these new player posts are written is cutest thing ever. The highest ilvl on a piece of gear currently is a rank 6 legendary crafted piece, which is 262., World quest items will scale up into the 380s based on your ilvl, with the elite world quests giving higher ilvl gear. You can get 385 gear from the primal storm event bosses but it takes a loooong time. The main 4 faction reps give 376 gear at certain ranks. Cobalt assembly has a 389 ring., Jul 13, 2023 · Season Rollover Decay at the Beginning of Mythic+ Season 2. When Season 2 starts, Keystones will drop by 9 levels in addition to any normal weekly reduction that may have occurred. Example 1: You completed a +15 the week of May 2-9, but did not time it. The resulting key would normally drop by 1 level because your highest key was not timed (15 ... , Fated Raids are the higher level of difficulty in raids for Season 4 of Shadowlands. Every weekly reset, one of the Shadowlands raids will become "Fated" for the duration of that week, with its difficulty increased and dropping higher item level loot to compensate. You can see which Shadowlands raid is currently fated from the Adventure Guide., Garuda, a mythical creature from Hindu and Buddhist mythology, has long been a prominent figure in art and architecture across Southeast Asia. Depicted as a half-human, half-bird c..., The following guide contains everything you need to know about the latest Mythic+ Season in World of Warcraft. TABLE OF CONTENTS OF THIS PAGE. 1. When …, Shadowlands Season 4 includes eight returning dungeons from earlier expansions, new seasonal rewards, all-new affixes, and fabulous rewards.Read on for more details! Fated RaidsIn the aftermath of our climatic battle in Zereth Mortis, the power of the First Ones is echoing across the Shadowlands, empowering some familiar raid settings …, Once you know the mechanics you can probably get away with a bit lower, but the bosses and trash do actually hurt and you should be proactive with using defensives and whatnot. 430 MINIMUM for both. Anything below that and trash mechanics will 1 shot you. It's a heroic raid ran by 5 people., Patch 9.1 comes with 2 more Crafter´s Marks. Novice Crater´s Mark Sets the ilvl to 87 and the required level to 50. Crafter´s Mark I Sets the ilvl to 117 and requires minimum level 53 instead of level 60. Crafter´s Mark II Sets the ilvl to 168 and required minimum level 57 instead of level 60. , Comment by Wexen 400 ilvl Azerite Armor gives 200 Titan Residuum when scrapped, not only 115. This is very important because if you are farming Titan Residuum out of Prismatic Manapearls it becomes more convenient to upgrade Benthic Azerite Armor at ilvl 400 spending 25 pearls for 200 TR, instead of scrapping ilvl 385 spending 5 pearls for 35 TR., The first week I've done a few 2 or 3 chests runs with 835 ilvl, +4 the week later 2 chests at 840. Now I'm playing a couple of alts in regular mythics and going for their +2/3 stones..the ilvl for a regular goes from 810 (a tiny bit low imo ) to the 855+, the higher I saw., Mythological lion names include Yali, Maahes and Sekhmet. Yali is a lion from Hindu mythology. Sekhmet is an Egyptian goddess with the head of a lion, and Maahes is a lion god of w..., I usually put 355 as the min ilvl. Of course if you're lower, you should put that as the threshold. [edited because I forgot what the current recommended ilvl was. It was 325 at the beginning of the expac and difficulty increased 30ilvls in Jan. - so 355 ], Welcome to our guide to Shadowlands Mythic Season One that begins December 8. Here, you will find changes pertaining to the loot from End-of-Run chests in Mythic+ and existing Keystone Affixes. We also list the new affixes introduced in Shadowlands and explain what they do. In the end, you will find rewards that you can …, Mythic Dungeon Rewards in Shadowlands Season 3. Mythic+ end-of-run drops will cap at Mythic+10 (Item Level 255) throughout the week of March 1-7 until Mythic Difficulty Sepulcher of the First Ones opens. During the week of March 1 you must complete a Mythic +15 run that week to claim Item Level 278 loot the following week on March 8., Ilvl for basic mythic was 820. +2 is an increase of 8% (I think). 840 is more than enough to get through a +2. 0. Reply. MrInYourFACE. • 7 yr. ago. If it is yoir key, open a group with your key and LF boost. If you want to do +2 you wont get invited u less you are at least 850+. 0., In Dragonflight, there are some ilvl changes that players are used to. There are still 4 difficulties: Raid Finder, Normal, Heroic, and Mythic. Item level grew according to higher difficulty before. Now it also increases within the same difficulty-based boss: The first boss drops the lowest ilvl gear; Then it increases with 3 ilvl for boss 2-4;, My main is arms but I been tanking mythics + due to people not inviting my 850 arms. My prot is 851. I been kinda nervous going into anything higher than a +4. ... There is no clear-cut ilvl as it varies between classes and skills and the rest of the group and correct/incorrect secondary stats, the list goes on., Dragonflight M+ and iLvl. Highmountain Tauren Prot Warrior - 364 iLvl. I've been just fine in +2 and +3 Mythics. Last night I struggled with a +5 (Crawth, specifically), and was told this morning by one of the members of the group I ran with that I shouldn't be doing any M+ until I'm at 390 iLvl. That feels . . . off., CommunityGeneral Discussion. Doggofloof-hellscream March 11, 2022, 5:19pm 1. I've got PvP gear that says: Equip: increase item level to 259 in PvP and War Mode I'm familiar with the gear changing ilvl whilst in combat with other players but I have a question about the " and War Mode " part. Suppose I'm in the open world with war mode ..., You also get a mix of raid achievements for beating VotI bosses, also you can grab ilvl 519 to 528 gear. Service Includes. Up to 8 bosses kills in Awakened VotI Mythic raid; Chance for of 519-528 ilvl gear; Chance for Incarnates raid Class Tier Set pieces; Progress in Vault of the Incarnates;, Since affixes are only added at certain key levels, you can always run keys with one or two affixes applied until you become more comfortable! Tip 5. Don’t be afraid of making mistakes on mechanics…. While messing up mechanics isn’t great, lower-level keys punish you far less for each mistake., Mythicstats focuses on data-driven statistical analysis and visualizations of World of Warcraft's Mythic+ dungeons. The minimalist design focuses on delivering essential data and insights to those captivated by the game's competitive side. Uncover the current meta, track trends, and gain a competitive edge. Meta DPS., M+ is absolutely unrewarding giving the effort in both ilvl and loot yield. This is a terrible design. 7 Likes. Jambo-firetree January 3, 2021, 3:27pm 10. I can't speak to what exactly you're talking about but I can speak to maining a disc priest for 2 seasons in bfa completing a few 20s and all 19s in time getting around 2900-3000 io. ..., Blizzard Forums, M+ keys at each keystone level from 11 and up are now worth an additional 2 points of Rating. For example, in Shadowlands Season 4, completing a dungeon exactly on time on both Fortified and Tyrannical would net you a Rating of 250 for that dungeon. In Dragonflight Season 1, you will now earn 270 Rating. This means that while keys above Level ..., We're starting off the final trading day of the week with a look at the biggest pre-market stock movers for Friday and what's moving them! NBRV and GMBL are leading our lists this ..., Mythic mode. Mythic is a difficulty of dungeons and raids. Introduced with Warlords of Draenor, it is the new cutting edge difficulty, replacing the position of Heroic raid difficulty. [1] In patch 6.2, Mythic mode was expanded to include 5-man dungeon instances., From the comments, you're playing what I'd probably consider the single most unforgiving spec in the game, and probably top 5 for most unforgiving spec of any patch at all. For an idea of expected ilvl, look at the item level that drops from the dungeon and subtract 10 or so. You should be plenty fine with a +5 in your gear, so I'm thinking it ..., On April 23rd, Vault of the Incarnates will be the first weekly Awakened Raid of Dragonflight Season 4. The raids will then rotate weekly with the following schedule: Week 1: Awakened Vault of the Incarnates. Week 2: Awakened Aberrus, the Shadowed Crucible. Week 3: Awakened Amirdrassil, the Dream's Hope., So you got waaay more chances for anything to TF and it would be just stupid to make m+ gear base ilvl higher. 930 from weekly chest is already high for doing just one +15. You can pug a +15 in 30 min, while mythic bosses drop same ilvl and you wipe on them for days or even weeks sometimes.